SPS MOROCCO/SADR/MEIDA "I moved freely and I was warmly
received" in Saharawi refugees camps, declares Lemrabet
15.01.05
Rabat, 15/01/05 (SPS) The
Moroccan journalist, Ali Lemrabet, underlined that he "moved freely" in
Saharawi refuges camps and "was warmly received", by Saharawis during
his visit to SADR, accusing the regime of his country of spreading
propaganda on Polisario Front.
Realised by the journalist Mustapha Antra and publicised by the
Moroccan magazine "Al Mustakil" in its 7th January's edition, the
interview with the Moroccan free-lance was also an occasion for Ali
Lemrabet to clarify his position on topical subjects and on Moroccan
political figures. Here is the complete text of the interview SPS
translated from Arabic.
" Mustapha Antra : Within the framework of
your work for Spanish newspaper "El Mundo", you lately undertook a
visit to the region of Tindouf, where you met with Abdelaziz, Polisario
Front's leader, and you also held a press conference in Algiers. We
would like to know what are the conclusions you got out of this visit.
Ali Lemrabet: First of all I
would like to draw your attention on the fact that I am a journalist,
and journalists, as you may know, have no geographical frontiers. Like
all the colleagues of the job I track down the event wherever it is.
Incidentally, I used to interview Netanyahu, the former president of
Israel. So, my position is something and the event I deal with is
another. With respect to the idea of interviewing Mohamed Abdelaziz, it
was my initiative not the Spanish responsible' for whom I work. I
suggested the idea to the newspaper and the answer was positive thanks
to the freedom I enjoy there. Besides, whatever I propose to the
persons in charge of the institution is accepted thanks to the
confidence that links us and to the professionalism of the newspaper.
On another hand, I did nor publicised all what Mohamed Abdelaziz
revealed to me. We had had a very long conversation in which he
revealed important and documented truths. Among the things he confirmed
me is that the process of negotiations with Morocco had reached an
advanced stage during the reign of Hassan II. Further, he spoke highly
of Hassan II and expressed his high esteem to the late to a point that
surprised me. Thus, I interrupted him saying that may be things changed
in Morocco after the accession to power of a king they say democrat. He
cut me short reaffirming again that, and though a dictator, Hassan II
was a man of State of the highest levels. He exercised power in Morocco
and possessed a clear vision on things. He simply knew what he wanted.
In this same context, I asked him about the reasons that pushed South
Africa to recognise the republic of Polisario knowing that Moroccan
people were full of solidarity with Nelson Mandela. His answer was that
Moroccan people effectively supported Nelson Mandela, but the Moroccan
regime –according to Mbeki- backed the regime of the apartheid. He
presented me in this respect many proofs that affirm the relations
between the two regimes such as the weapons South Africa used to
provide Morocco with, in addition to meetings between the Moroccan
officials with their South African counterparts during the period of
the apartheid.
These truths are recorded in reports that will be spread in the
appropriate time. And that made me laugh, especially that I recalled
many parties who accused me before of having had contacts with
Polisario officials without any evidences while the meetings between
Moroccan officials with those of the regime of apartheid are documented
and recorded.
M-Antra: What is the opinion of
Abdelaziz about Morocco after the accession of Mohamed VI?
A-L: What Mohamed Abdelaziz
affirms is the absence of a responsible political interlocutor.
Further, he does not know exactly what the regime of Mohamed VI wants.
According to him things were more obvious during the reign of Hassan II
despite of the difficulties of the dossier. At least the horizon was
very clear and everybody was heading towards the referendum. The new
king, on his side, has blocked the process by his rejection of the
referendum. For that all the interviews accorded by Mohamed Abdelaziz
underline this fact.
M-Antra: And what is the image
you have of Tindouf after having closely seen the realities on the
ground compared to the image you had before?
A-L: I went to Tindouf and I
met with the members of the Government of Polisario. They granted me
free movement since they gave me the choice either to have an official
as a company or to move alone. I freely moved and I was warmly
received, nobody harassed me or disturbed, further, all doors were
opened to me. And though I declared since my arrival to Algiers that
Sahara was Moroccan and that Saharawis are Moroccans, I told them that
I am with the Baker plan, anyhow it was Hassan II who accepted this
plan though he was a dictator. I am with Baker and I reiterate this
position.
Concerning what is spread about Saharawis in Tindouf, that they are
held there against their will, this is mere lies and mystification. The
only imprisoned are Moroccan prisoners of war, the others are Saharawis
and have no desire to enter Morocco. Further, all what is said about
their being under a state of siege and that they are not allowed to
have access to Morocco or other places is no more than defamation
because the borders between Tindouf and Mauritania are opened and
anyone who wants to cross them towards Morocco would face no
difficulties to do it.
M. Antra: And what is it about
the camps there?
A-L: It is true that the camps
lack the most rudimentary conditions for a dignified life. And I
expressed to Saharawis who live there my opposition to the social
situation there parting from the fact that I consider they are
Moroccans and brothers, but I found in them a rejection not only of the
possibility of entering to Morocco but also a rejection of becoming
Moroccans, though their answers were polite and civilised.
Far from this, and after I went back to Spain I wrote an article about
Moroccan prisoners of war in which I defended them and which was
publicised by "El Mundo" and reproduced by "Le Courrier International".
But, nobody mentioned this article and everybody only talked about my
visit to Tindouf, what means that their vision is very narrow. They
only see what would not serve them in anything.
M- Antra : The freedom of press
lately knew a qualitative development, what do you think about this
freedom as a journalist who lives outside Morocco, taking into
consideration that you were judged because of what was publicised in
the two magazines you directed?
A-L: What has lately attracted
my attention is that the magazine "Tel Quel", whose director (and not
its journalists, because I differentiate between the two) used to
attack me for reason I can not tell if personal or not. This person,
who has already accused me of many things such as: that I want to
"break" some things and that I move too fast etc, this same person
publicised Today a caricature of Mohamed VI taking into consideration
that I had never had the guts to publicise a similar caricature, I
barely publicised the caricature of a head, feet or hands… Further, he
confirmed now what earned me been introduced to justice when I talked
about the budget of the Palace, since he mentioned the subject now
confirming it. It means that the King is robbing the goods of the
people!? I really laughed reading this kind of stuff I already wrote
about.
M.Antra: Why?
A-L: Because the same persons
who used to attack and criticise me changed their attitude now and
start writing on the same subjects I used to tackle before. The freedom
of the press can not be blocked, its development is unavoidable and
nobody can face this no matter what important means he has under his
disposition especially that we are living the era of internet with the
tremendously opened horizons the revolution of telecommunication,
information and multimedia is offering us. They attacked Ali Lemrabet,
they looked for all what can stain his reputation, but what did they
get? They made of Lemrabet a hero at the international. The Counsellor
of the king, Azoulai, met with the leaders of two American
organisations asking them not to defend me pretending that I am
anti-Semite!! Their answer was to ask him to drive me before court if
he has proofs of that against me, and they did not give any Importance
to what he said. Another counsellor of the king, whose name I am still
searching for and I will certainly get it, met with the leaders of some
institutions for the defence of journalists' rights in Cairo. He asked
them not to defend Lemrabet pretending that Lemrabet has got relations
with the Mosad of Israel!! But I really do not know now if I am
anti-Semite or if I work with the Mosad!? They still can not understand
that Lemrabet is a professional freelance, who has got his own free
ideas that nobody shall ever control.
M- Antra: You certainly followed
the steps of the process of the "institutional reconciliation" which
reached the stage of holding of public audiences organised by the
Committee Fairness and Reconciliation. In your opinion how does the
international opinion perceive these steps Morocco crossed in this
domain?
A-L : First of all the
international public opinion wonder how could the period of
reconciliation you are talking about be limited only to the period of
the reign of Hassan II, since it stops at the year 1999 and do not
transcend it. Maybe some voices would anticipate saying that we can not
go further to 2004, but why not to 2001 or 2003?! I think that the
reason behind this lies in the will of avoiding to touch the regime of
king Mohamed VI because it is the one who finance this operation,
otherwise, did we not witnessed illegal violations and practices during
the last five years? Besides, how could the Committee of Fairness and
Reconciliation force the victims not to mention the names of their
torturers, isn't it necessary to name those who are implicated to the
crime, to the forced disappearance and arbitrary detention, such as
General Hosni Benslimane and others who practiced torture and who
remains in power in very sensitive posts?
When Spain entered the period of democracy the officials avoided to
open "the secrets' box" because of the difficulty of closing it later,
but they moved away all the persons implicated in crimes of tortures
from their charges without driving them before court. Thus the
transition to the new stage was calm and swift. Here in Morocco, these
kinds of persons are still in their posts as if nothing happened. And I
will tell you a story about Salah El Ouadii. After the banning of
"Demain" a journalist that used to collaborate with the magazine
contacted the committee of Fairness and Reconciliation looking for a
job, since the Committee was looking for additional stuff. He was
transferred to El Oudii who received him well first, then completely
changed attitude as soon as he heard that the journalists used to work
for "Demain", what surprised the poor guy who said to me when we met,
but what reconciliation are they talking about, and what is my fault in
all this, I was only a journalist working in an institution to earn his
living.
M- Antra: But you forgot that the
period concerned with the reconciliation goes back to the era of the
late Mohamed V?
A-L: I don't think this process
would realise the goals it is aimed for. I absolutely do not think that
the people of the Rif, for example, who suffered the attack of the
Makhzen in 1958, would positively answer the appeals of Benzekri's
friends. And if we want to know the truth, then it should be complete,
and if we want it complete then we should not look at it with a closed
eye and the other half opened. King Mohamed V and Hassan II both gave
the orders of the attack against the population of the north; this is
an unavoidable fact.
We should for example draw light on the crimes committed by the Party
of Istiqlal (Party for Independence) at the beginnings of independence.
There are witnesses on the crimes the country knew then and the other
Party, Choura and Istiqlal, can help informing the public opinion on
the subject taking into consideration that it was one of the victims of
the Istiqlal, which was composed of members now in other Parties such
as the National Union of the Popular Forces and the Socialist Union of
the Popular Forces.
The reconciliation, should either be complete or not to be at all. And
if we want it complete it has to cover all the period from the past to
the current period.
M-Antra: Don't you think that to
be established the reconciliation with the period of Mohamed VI would
wait in its turn for another Benzekri and another Committee?
A-L: Why not, because it’s
difficult for a political regime to establish reconciliation. They want
to realise their goals on a dead king's bill, and for this they will
create a big show to give the impression that they are working hard to
realise a real reconciliation while they will realise it only orally.
Thus we will have to wait for another forty or fifty years till their
sons come and establish a new reconciliation.
M-Antra: The attacks against the
former minister for Interior, Driss Basri, are one of the most
important political and media subjects. These attacks are performed by
members of the political elite, some of whom were close mates of the
Minister or parts of the successive Governments he served in, how do
you explain this political attitude from our elite?
A-L: I faced Basri when he was
in power and we attacked him seriously in the magazine "Le Journal",
something that is documented and known to everybody, but when he got
out of power everything ended for me, it was time to stop. Anyhow if
they want to judge Basri they can do it, but he should not be the only
one. He should be judged beside Hassan II, Benslimane and the others,
and this is certainly what we are going to reach.
What surprised me are those who used to kiss his hands, and they are
many, and now they want his head. I will give you and example in this
respect, for instance Naim Kamal, who was seen many times on his four
legs before Basri in the golf fields, we see now that he became a real
activist, or further a hero who attacks and prepares a book on Basri.
Personally I do not see what he can pout in this book! Same thing for
Abbas El Fassi, the protagonist of the scandal of "Najat
company", or El Wardighi, the hero of the last hour and Khayari "the
impudent" and others. I will not attack Basri and I would not back him
either, because I criticise people who are still in power when they
commit mistakes in their policies. Besides, Driss Basri lost his post
in power and became a real mine for information, half false information
but one can get the truth out of it if he tries to. Basri explains to
us how each one worked and the nature of the relation he had with the
political system, Basri knows all of them.
M-Antra: How did you conceive
the fact that Basri was deprived of his passport?
A-L: I think they do not have
had the right to deprive Basri from his passport. I wrote an article in
the French newspaper "Le Monde" in which I mentioned that Basri, who
used to deprive people from their passports, is now deprived from his.
They do not have the right to contact the French president Jacques
Chirac through some people to push him deprive Basri from residence.
This is a childish attitude, because if they have proofs on his
implication in specific dossiers why don't they judge him, but he
should not be the only one to be judged, Hussni Benslimane, Hafidh
Benhachem and the others should be judged with him too. If there is a
will from the regime to close the dossiers of the past, then all these
dossiers should be opened and there should be an investigation on the
persons who got rich and who accumulated big fortunes in the fields of
fishing, agriculture or trade…Otherwise, to personalise the crisis in
Basri alone and to accuse him of corruption and of getting rich
illegally and to proceed for instance to cutting water to a farm,
Hassan II gave him, because it is close to another farm of king Mohamed
VI, well this is stupid.
M-Antra : You are accused, besides Moulay Hicham,
Basri and the Association Sahara Marocain under the direction of Ridha
Toujni, of constituting abroad a front against the regime, what is it
the truth in this accusation?
A-L: My Front is internal and
is not abroad. I live in Morocco and I will soon edit a satirical
magazine. Many things were spread and written about me. It was
pretended, for instance, that Lemrabet is an agent of the Spanish
secret services, that he has got relations with the Mosad or with
Polisario… They have said everything, but how is it possible that their
secret services, which know everything and count every single breath to
the citizens, which listen to the citizens communications, control
their bank accounts and follow them wherever they go, taking into
account that this services work illegally, how was it possible that
these services failed then to find proofs to proceed something against
Lemrabet in court instead of creating a crime the name insult against
sacred symbols.
M-Antra:How could you explain
the agreement of Lemrabet, Manthri, Moulay Hicham, Basri... in the
opposition to the system?
A-L: I do not know if Moulay
Hicham is an opposing or not? Same thing for Basri and the association
Sahara Marocain? Anyhow, this is not my business, all I know is that I
am an opposing to this regime, and the friends of Lemrabet are
numerous, from the press, lawyers, artists, politicians and even from
the security services.
M-Antra:You said security?
A-L: Yes, many people from the
security milieu sympathise with me. Moulay Hicham, on his part, is not
my friend, but I respect him too much and I consider him though I do
not agree with all his ideas and visions, but he is the Alaouit I
respect most in Morocco.
M-Antra: You said you represent
the opposition to the regime; do you have a political project?
A-L: I have no political
project and I am not a political opposing. I simply oppose this system
and I hope to establish the State of law and institutions. My project
is that I have got a magazine I would like to be a mirror that reflects
all opinions and all voices be it Islamic, socialist or liberal…A
magazine, which I want be obsessed by the desire to materialise
democracy.
M-Antra: In your opinion who
Governs Morocco?
A-L: King Mohamed VI
M-Antra:But your attack was
more focused on his collaborators?
A-L: I publicised an article
before in which I said that the only sacred is Allah, alone, and nobody
else is. Parting from this I criticised the Governor and his
collaborators… and I think that my magazine reflected my ideas and
visions in this subject.
M-Antra: Do you think that King
Mohamed VI is satisfied with this situation?
A-L: Of course, the king reads the news about the country everyday in
newspapers. Maybe he does not read national newspapers, but he
certainly reads French and Spanish ones, because these last months
Fouad Ali El Hemma and El Fassi El Fehri had asked the Spanish Head of
Government, Zapatero, to help put an end to the attacks against the
regime of Mohamed VI in the Spanish newspapers, what means that the
king is well up on what happens.
M-Antra: We heard you are going
to receive a price from an American association?
A-L: I will not tell you the
name of the organisation nor the nature of the price.
M-Antra: Why?
A-L: Simply because the Makhzen
will again send the counsellors of the kings to this organisation to
convince it not giving me the price. So for pity's sake with the money
of the people, which is spent on the movements of these counsellors,
and have mercy of these counsellors themselves because sending them in
such missions would cost them an effort without results. I will not
reveal the name of this organisation, and it will be the 20th price I
receive, and bye the way I have got a big problem in finding place to
put all of these prices in my house.
M-Antra: But you have to thank
the Makhzen because it the reason for all this!
A-L: Absolutely, the Makhzen
was really behind the reasons that contributed to make me famous
abroad, for this I would part the prices with the Makhzen. This is his
right and I won't deprive him from it.
M-Antra:What are your projects
for the future?
A-L: I will soon launch a
satirical magazine in French that will be temporarily be called
"Après Demain" (the Day after), and after that another magazine
in Arabic. I said temporarily "Après Demain" because the Makhzen
can surprise us by rejecting the name pretending that there are similar
ones in the Moroccan press just to disturb. What is important is that
my projects are about to progress and will appear soon". (SPS)
SAHARA
PRESS SERVICE